2014 Pappy Van Winkle Release Map

Pappy Van Winkle Release Date

*Please Read: Each state is highlighted once one bottle is reported. Generally, that means that store, and a lot of times that city, is already sold out. This map isn’t an official release tracker from Buffalo Trace but a network of bourbon drinkers looking to help each other. Stores are dealing with smaller allocations and greatly increased demand. Please be understanding of this fact. Happy Hunting! *

With fall bourbon releases already in full swing everyone is still waiting the release of Pappy Van Winkle. I’m not sure what comes after “cult status” but I’m pretty sure we will see it in the release of the 2014 Pappy Van Winkle. Remember that there are only about 22k-24k (by my best estimates) bottles released a year. With flippers realizing they can make a $ off of Pappy and a huge influx of new bourbon drinkers the odds are not in your favor. But, that’s what this map is for :). My hope is to help people find and enjoy a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle (or from the Van Winkle line).

As with last year I will be updating this map as each state receives Pappy. If you know of a release or were able to score a bottle please let me know at Blake@Bourbonr.com. Based on last year we still have a couple weeks until we begin to see Pappy released however the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection surprised everyone with an early release this year so it’s important to be ready for anything. Especially when it comes to hunting bourbon.

If you’re looking for another tool to help you find Pappy this year the Pappy Tracker app has added some really cool new features including a “Buy Online”, push notifications releases and a Pappy calendar feature. Happy Hunting!

It wouldn’t be a Pappy release without some confusion! If you know of a bottle that you believe is 2014 check the small black laser code on the back/bottom of the bottle. If it says B14###### that’s a 2014 release. Let me know if you have a 2014!

There’s been a lot of questions about how Total Wine will handle their Pappy Van Winkle release. According to a TW  representative (someone in corporate not just a store rep) Total Wine will hold their Pappy Van Winkle allocation and make an announcement in February about how they will sell it. Don’t expect to see any bottles until March or later.

10/23 – North Dakota becomes the first state to receive Pappy! Iowa and West Virginia receive Pappy

10/24 – Virginia is for Pappy! Maryland also receives Pappy today

10/29 – Wisconsin (Small allocation in Madison)

10/30 – Pappy Van Winkle hit shelves in North Carolina and Southern Illinois today

11/1 – Texas and Indiana have Pappy

11/3 – Pappy Van Winkle in South Carolina

11/4 – Pappy in Kentucky and Arkansas! Add Kansas to the Pappy Release  list

11/5 – Pappy in East Tennessee and Arizona

11/6 – Pappy in Washington DC

11/7 – Delaware received Pappy Van Winkle.

11/10 – Rhode Island and Michigan has Pappy.

11/11 – New Hampshire (State regulated) and Ohio (small allocation, mostly to restaurants) has Pappy. Add Mississippi to the list

11/12 – Pappy Van Winkle spotted in Chicagoland. Now Maine has Pappy

11/13 –  Pappy in Alabama. If you’re not in line yet you’re probably out of luck. Pappy Van Winkle hits Georgia (Macon, not Atlanta yet). South Dakota has Pappy. Pappy Van Winkle hits store shelves in New Jersey

11/14 – Pappy Van Winkle is in Missouri. Pappy Van Winkle is in Massachusetts

11/15 Colorado and Oregon see their first (and maybe only for Oregon) bottles of Pappy Van Winkle

11/17 – Pappy in Nebraska

11/19 – Vermont and Minnesota now reporting Pappy Van Winkle

11/20 – Montana received a small allocation of Pappy Van Winkle

11/24 – Wyoming has Pappy

11/26 – Pappy in Florida!

12/1 – Pappy Van Winkle hits shelves in West Tennessee and New Mexico

12/3 – Pappy Van Winkle has made its way to Idaho. Louisiana sees it’s first Pappy

12/5 – Pappy Van Winkle lands in California (BevMo email) and Connecticut

12/11 – Pappy Van Winkle sold out in record time in Pennsylvania this morning

12/12 – Washington sees it’s first Pappy Van Winkle in the form of a BevMo lottery

12/15 – Pappy Van Winkle released today in New York (No NYC reports yet)

12/16 – Pappy Van Winkle in NYC

12/23 – Pappy Van Winkle has made its way to Utah. Your move Oklahoma

2014 Pappy Van Winkle Release Map - Copy

 

 

816 comments

    I already have all of my contacts down and first calls have been made. I love the hunt. I ‘m not a whiskey drinker, I prefer the grape. I do it for my husband. Last year I ended up with a 20 and a 23.

    Your husband is a lucky guy. Let me know if you want to trade a bottle for bottles of wine from my stash. After all your husband only needs one! I have a lot of California, Washington and Oregon pinot’s and cabs going back 10 years. Couple of 97 cabs that are still holding up too. Some very hard to get. All kept at 53 degrees since purchase

    Sue, I am a newbie to the hunt but I am lucky enough to have tasted both the 10 and 20 years. I live in NC where the liquor is controlled by the state (bummer…). Do you happen to know where I would be able to inquire about buying online? You seem to know your stuff! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Phil,
    I also live in NC; it is illegal to ship liquor here from other states (all part of that state-operated thing) so pretty much any established retailer or supply company knows better and won’t do it. You’ll need to purchase privately, i.e., the secondary market, which of course flat-out sucks for something like Pappy. So you’re best bet is to get in with your local store, have an out of state friend do the work/shipping for you, or plan on driving out of state.

    Ouch, I figured as much. We can’t order liquor online? Really? Bummer. I entered the Orange County ABC lottery so hopefully something works out for me. The guy at the store told me that last drop the entire county only got 23 bottles of Pappy total, only 2 of which were 23 year. Thanks for your advice, looks like we’re screwed!

    I am looking high and low for a bottle of 15, 20, or 23 for my boyfriend. This would be the ULTIMATE surprise for someone who doesn’t like surprises this Christmas. I have joined several waiting lists, emailed the distillery, posted ads on Craigslist, joined numerous Facebook groups, and saved a google alert. Does anyone have any tips on how to buy a bottle?

    Purchased 2 PVW 23 and 1 PVW 20 last year. Gave one of the 23’s as a gift. Haven’t cracked the remining 23 or 20. Just purchased a EC 23, waiting for a Willett 22 to come in the next yew days. PVW coming in the next few weeks. Wife tells me I’m a sucker!

    The Rhetoric is very good, however, the Old Blowhard is beyond good. It’s phenomenal. Heavy oak with a finish that mimics that of Pappy (Orange Peel).

    A case (3 bottles) of ORVW 10 yr (2013 vintage) sold at auction recently for over $1100. That’s about 10x retail per bottle. That’s the secondary market. Get used to it. All of you anti-flipping, nonsensical ‘hunters’ need to come to grips with reality and focus on the real problems in the booze industry if you were really concerned. ‘Flipping’ is so far down the list only a fool would entertain such diluted thought.

    Actually although selling at auctions is legal, but an individual selling without a license on craigslist (or wherever) is illegal, so I do see this is a problem (who knows if the flippers are even giving you the product you’re paying for anyway) – although, yes, the secondary prices represent the true supply/demand picture.

    Not sure what other “real problems” you’re talking about are – most of these products are aged so long that it will be a long time before supply can catch up with demand – this is a boom nobody saw coming 12+ years ago.

    I would never buy on the secondary market, even if it were legal. And those ORVW 10 year buyer(s) really overpaid for this bourbon. I was ‘lucky’ enough to get my hands on the 2013 ORVW 10 yr and to me it tastes like a $30 bourbon. IMO Parkers promise of hope and many other bourbons beats it hands down. I wonder though if I just don’t like the flavor profile of the Pappy’s.

    I understand. I am not a big Parkers Heritage fan… I have a couple bottles of of Promise of Hope still unopened. I have my own taste profiles. For me… my favorites (Well Top 5 I guess in no particular order… and these change by the season).

    1. Michter’s 10 year
    2. Four Roses Single Barrel Limited Edition
    3. Old Blowhard
    4. Pappy Van Winkle
    5. Buffalo Trace Experimental Collection #7 Heavy Char

    I won a lottery this week in south Florida for a local liquor store I shop in to purchase Pappy. I was given the option of which bottles they had available and able to choose one. Also, they have WL Weller for special purchase at $79.99 so I opted for that too. The prices of the Pappy were retail. They did not mark them up. The 12 for example is $54.99 and they go up from there with no bottle costing more than $199.99

    Don’t think 23 year was in that mix then. Last year the 23 retailed at about $280. I highly doubt it went down to $200 this year. More reasonable that 20 year went up to $200.

    That would be Abc Fine wines and there price on the 23 year was 267 my local store was holding a bottle for one lucky lottery winner

    New Hampshire just sent out emails to those who won the right to buy Pappy, which ones they can buy and what stores they will be sent to. They will be available in about three weeks. My cousin and I both received emails saying we can buy Pappy 10 and Pappy 12.

    What list were you on? I call and email the NH liquor store to make special orders often and when I inquired twice this year about BTAC & Van Winkle products, they said “just check your local stores. we’re not taking reservations”

    Adam,

    When I found a bottle of ORVW 10 last year, I got lucky. I called several stores when they would show up on the state website and each time they had a waiting list. When Portsmouth got their inventory, they refused to have waiting list. It was first come first serve and I emailed store before they even opened that day.

    Over the year, I filled out the Product Request Form. I guess they used those submissions to make a list to sell to. You still might be able to get them by contacting each store as they get them.

    Good luck!

    being a retailer based in Northern California all I can say is that the craze has just gotten bigger over the last 5 years or so. last year I got all the marks of Pappy besides 20 years and were sold out in 5 minutes. I am at the moment eagerly waiting for my allocation for BTAC. Let’s see what they have in store for me. Blake I will send the email with picks once I get the BTAC and PVW this year.you are doing a gr8 job in regards to update the avid bourbon lovers.Cheers !!!!

    Being in Virginia with state controlled liquor stores(lame), it’s very difficult to begin to search for Pappy. I do know that they no longer offer a list to join to possibly have the chance to buy a bottle. I definitely don’t want to go the after market route. I wish I still lived in Kentucky for this reason alone! I do know that Buffalo Trace has started shipping Pappy to distributors at the very least. So it shouldn’t be long before it starts landing in stores. I’m hoping a little luck is on my side as I have a couple folks in Kentucky trying to snag me a bottle or two. Does anyone know, do they usually limit you to one bottle if you get chosen for the lottery, or do you have the option to buy more than one?

    I had a lengthy convo with the manager of one VA ABC store near me this past weekend and he showed me the email they had received from Richmond (with the allocation for BTAC and instructions for PVW, when it’s allocated) and I can confirm Josh’s comment on VA no longer offering a list and VA ABC stopped entering new customers as of early 2013. They basically have people in a list as far back as early 2012, they call it a “2-year backorder” for PVW and BTAC (even though it’s just a notification list). However, he has told me that most store managers will still sell to their “preferred” customers, even if not on the list…so the usual BS.

    @E,

    I’m in Virginia too (Virginia Beach). I’m not holding my breath for any pappy and got the same story from my local ABC about how they can’t put me on a list or special order me any PVW. I am curious about any information you have for allocation of BTAC in Virginia if you are willing to share (swhitworth@osageva.com). I’m on a list for WLW at my local store but they said 9 others were ahead of me. I also communicated with the folks in Richmond but their response was a little tuff to understand.

    I am in Newport News, VA and I won a silent auction for a bottle of 12 PVW and 23 PVW. I paid somewhat below aftermarket prices but still much more than list price. They are 2014 release and are unopened. Let me know if you would be interested in making an offer.

    I am in Indianapolis and scored some BTAC last night. Got the George T Stagg and the Eagle Rare 17 yr. Both retailed for $79.99ea. Still looking for the Weller.

    I’ve been searching Indiana the last few days and haven’t come up empty. Any chance you’ll share where you found them?

    Bourbonr Edit: I believe this in 2013 bottles that were left over

    And we’re off! Just got off the phone with a store in West Virginia who called to say they received their allocation and confirmed me 1 bottle of 10 yr. I was on their waiting list and the mgr said their allocation was much less than last year. Looks like the madness is under way. Happy hunting everyone!

    I thought it was 2013 also and specifically ask that question. They said it was their 2014 allocation. It could still be a 2013 bottle, but I’ll have to verify the laser code once I have the bottle in hand to confirm.

    Just got a call from my local Hyvee in Iowa that they got a VW10yr in for me. I was told they requested the full PVW lineup and that’s all they got. Is it strange that it would come through before all the BTAC is even out? Iowa is a control state so I wonder how that affected things.

    BTAC landed in Iowa two to three weeks before Pappy landed. I can confirm that from the bottle of Handy I somehow lucked into.

    The Van Winkle family is in the house in WV. I was lucky to pick up 1 each of the 10, 12, 15 and 20. Still searching for a 23 and Rye.

    Some Pappy is being released today in Coralville, IA at a particular store. Some other’s nearby already went through what they received. I cannot get confirmation yet if it’s 2013’s, or this year’s. I would love to know though.

    The store I frequent in North Dakota received their allotment of Pappy and it went on sale this morning. They got 14 bottles, unfortunately I was number 16 on the list. Not sure of the breakdown on what it was they received but it looked mainly like 15 and 20 year. Also received their shipment of Buffalo Trace’s Antique Collection.

    Talked to a couple reps in NC today, they haven’t seen anything come in. (their shipments usually arrive on Thursdays… hopefully my luck will strike next Thursday.)

    Down here in Tamba Bay, Florida and no one is letting out a peep. I have a bottle of the 10yr who dearly wants a family member! Anything Helps!! Happy Hunting Y’all

    A major retailer in FL, Totalwine, is telling customers that they are receiving no Pappy this fall due to shortages related to the 2013 theft. Got the same message at store and corporate level.

    They said the same thing last year…. They still got Pappy. Take what they say with a grain of salt. I’v sure they receive hundreds of calls looking for “Pappy”

    I as told that Total may or may not by one store, the next told me in a few weeks, and finally a third told me they will get it, but won’t put it out till probably February. So you can decide how they are gonna do it. They said the same thing with the BTAC as well.

    Prices: Damn, we all know that flippers are trying to get their hands on more than a single bottle and turn the others to make some chooch. But retailers??!! I called a store today in Southern California (Number One Liquor Mart in Redondo Beach) as I knew they actually had Pappy left over from last year. They had told me last year, about this time, that because of the “heist” they were justified in charging $2300 for the 23 and $1400 for the 20 year old! I was wondering what they were going to do because they still hadn’t sold their bottles from last year. Well … apparently they did recently sell last year’s bottles but also had some 15 year old from last year that they recently put out … for $999! I asked if they were going to get any this year and if they were going to lower their price on all of their PVW inventory. Nope. They intend to sell everything they get at these same prices!! Talk about gouging the public – how about a little outcry here!!! Does anyone know how sensitive the distillery is to this sort of price gouging? I’d love to get their allotment pulled and get it to some other store that would be more fair and reasonable about the prices.

    PVW is good but I refuse to pay more than retail Let the flippers keep there bottle, If they want to make money in the Bourbon Industry let them open there own distillery I pass there is other Bourbon available at retail price if you know what your looking for Today I picked up 2 Bottles of Michters limited release at Total wines

    @shanghai55…if the store you mentioned is “selling” their Van Winkle inventory at ludicrous prices, they really have no incentive to change their business practices. I do see an issue if they have remaining inventory when the next year’s allocation is released. The distributors should penalize retailers with remaining PVW inventory from the previous year. Either take away or decrease their allocation. Distributors should do the same with the owner/hoarder who keeps the highly allocated items for himself. As anyone running a successful business, you should not get attached to your product. The best you can do as a consumer is pick and choose where you spend your money.

    I dont think most bourbon hunters realize you need to go into these stores and talk to the person in charge of LE and rare releases weekly for a long time to show your commitment. Blasting into a store and saying you want pappy is the mpst hilarious thing. Calling is even worse no one wants to talk to you if they dont even know who you are..and why would they when other people come in regularly and spend time to talk and share their knowledge.

    I keep reading posts about these things and being that i am the guy who deals with this stuff at my store. I have ti say im not impressed. Ill never give a bottle to someone calling. It doesn’t make sense. I want customers to show me their dedication and appreciation for all the time i spend tracking these products down.

    It takes a lot of face time and none of my best customers are my friends they have gone he extra mile. Bringing me samples, articles, knowledge. I dont ask they just do it.

    You are right Andrew, being a store owner myself in California I feel the same way.Starting October we start getting calls for BTAC and PVW by people who I don’t even know. Three years ago I gave a guy a bottle of GTS in the first attempt and then he dis appeared till next year and asked for another GTS and I had to say no politely. Customers have to realize how many different products a retailer has to carry from Buffalo Trace in order to get any BTAC and PVW. Now I have educated my customers very well and they try to support our store as much as they can and they understand as well how the allocation works. So it is always going to be hard to make everyone understand but got to keep trying and be fair to everyone.

    Loyalty is understandable in any commercial environment, but it is delivered in a multitude of ways. Sirens blazing and flag waving when you enter the establishment isn’t my style. Making frequent, regular purchases; placing positive online reviews; promoting their business to family, friends, coworkers who place $x,xxx purcases; all the while without the proprietors knowledge is how I operate. That metric of loyalty is far more valuable than buying a case of PBR every week.

    Well put – I’m in Chicago and they just getting stuff in, but should be able to get a few bottles because I have been a loyal customer at a few stores for several years, and have a good relationship with the managers and workers there. It’s more fun that way anyhow – you never get multiple of each, and may not get every release, but it’s great when the you’ve reached the point where they Want to be able to get you a bottle. Then, when you open this stuff – have them over. As much as I may want something, I cannot imagine traveling around to random stores for 5+ hours and just hounding people for a bottle.

    Hello everyone, Pappy is in Virginia as of today. Of course everything is likely allocated, though I have also been told that Pappy 15 yr and Old Rip Van Winkle may be available outside of allocations… maybe.

    Not to boast… but I was lucky enough to get a Van Winkle Reserve 12 yr from a ABC store in the West End of Henrico (Richmond). Apparently the bottle was reserved, but the owner’s phone number was disconnected. Lucky, I know. Maybe you will have the same luck. Now if I can just find some BTAC.

    Happy hunting. _

    Just a head’s up the ‘hunters’ out there; I’ve been in the alcohol retail industry for the past 6 or 7 years and I’ve watched the demand for PVW and AC literally explode in the past two-three years. In the mid 2000s we would get our allotment and still have several bottles all the way into the spring/summer sometimes. Now, we are technically sold out before they are even shipped. In case any one is wondering who I choose who to sell them to, it generally goes to the regulars who have shopped here for awhile. I will politely listen but I would never sell to someone whom I do not know on the phone no matter how much money they offer nor would I even consider the people who show up, everyday, about a month before release. As Andrew pointed out, you have to buy a lot of your Distributors stuff in order to get any substantial (read a case or two if really lucky) amounts. I generally also really look for people whom are going to enjoy them and are not looking to make a profit, as I do not really sell them for that much more then retail. I found out that a guy I sold several bottles to last year immediately went out and sold them online, we will never get an other bottle from any of my stores. Also, as a person who tastes all kinds of liquor on a daily basis, PVW is good, excellent even but there are comparable spirits to be found without so much hunting.

    Awesome insight! Thanks for sharing. Absolutely agree with you. While we were on vacation in August I saw a couple of bottles of PVW….for $2500 each! There is a place here in DC that has the PVS, BTAC, Black Maple Hill…all in the front window! Can’t imagine how that’s going to taste after months of sitting in the sun. Regardless, they are selling for $2500 for the 23 yr PVW. Absolutely disgusting.
    Curious to hear which ones you think are comparable to PVW. I agree there are some that are just as good if not better. Always interested to hear other folks’ opinions!
    Cheers!

    Wanted to let you know that Pappy has arrived in Virginia!! However, there are some important things to know.

    The Old Rip Van Winkle, Van Winkle Lot B (12 yr), and Pappy Van Winkle 15 yr are the only bottles that will be put on shelves.

    The Pappy 20 yr and 23 yr are already allocated via special order and will not be hitting shelves. The 20 yr is currently at a 3 yr wait list. The 23 yr is a 5 yr wait list.

    The shipment came in the Virginia ABC stocking this week and should be shipping out to stores on Tuesday.

    Cheers!!

    Each individual ABC store in VA should know their allocation by now. Most store should be receiving their shipment tomorrow morning. Tuesday is the day that VA distributes to the stores. I’d say give your local stores a call and see if they are getting an allocation. Good luck!

    After calling local stores here in Fredericksburg, the consensus is this; they have a 2 year long list, and no names will be added to that list. Each store has their own list. However, according to a few stores here…if for some reason the can cover the amount of names on their list, but someone doesn’t pick theirs up, it is to be sent back to Richmond to be redistributed. Unreal. It doesn’t sound like there will be anything landing on the shelves for those looking to walk in and buy. Major bummer.

    Pappy is out in D.C. held a bottle of the 12 year this morning, wasn’t going to pay 340$ for a bottle. The owner said he had received Pappy about 10 days ago, an the last 2 bottles would likely be sold by the weekend. Not to mention the Elmer Lee was near 70$ gave’m a little hell about the price an walked out. I enjoy drinking good juice but not like that-not when someone looks you in the eye knowing they’er ripping you off an expecting you to take it.

    There are several stores in DC that horde PVW and jack up the price. It’s not just PVW. There is a place in DuPont Circle that is selling PVW for $2500; Lot B for $1000; Black Maple Hill for $300; Willett for $250….etc. It’s ludicrous!

    Wow those are crazy prices and $300 for BMH. I like Black Maple Hill but that’s nuts. Hoping Pappy hits Ga soon. My local bottle shop owner who I’ve given all my business to is going to hold a bottle for me. Commenters were right. Get to know the owners. Stop and chat when you can and be a loyal customer and you’ll get lucky.

    Iowa ABD just sent some pappy to stores. However, it was the 2013. Not sure what this means for the 2014, as there were rumors that a pallet of 2013 was “lost” by Iowa ABD. If anyone has better Iowa info I would like to hear it. I bought a ORVW 10 in Iowa on Thursday but it has a B13 laser etching.

    Totally agree with Andrew and others. I’ve lived in three states in three years but have been completely loyal to three different stores in each location during the time I was there. I’m talking everything, not just bourbon. Two of those three shops will hold BTAC and PVW for me this fall. Loyalty goes a long way and as I’m sure any small business owner would attest, a reliable customer following is what makes owning your own business worth the hassle.

    Completely unrelated, I was just in FL to visit my parents and was told by the store manager at Total in Sarasota that they were not being allocated BTAC…but she “expected a few bottles of PVW.”

    Blake: Keep up the good work, man. Per usual, the blog is spot on.

    Happy Hunting!

    I agree on the loyalty comment but for those in ABC states (like me), a customer can be loyal but its pretty much impossible for the store to recognize it. State owned stores have many shift workers working throughout the week/month. I could hit my local ABC 3 times a week and never see the same person working. Worse yet is that the manager/buyer is in the back office 95% of the time so the person that you really want to form a relationship is generally not available. I have asked to speak to the manager before to discuss special order stuff, but it wouldn’t be appropriate to have someone go get him from the back every time I stop in (at least 1x per week). My point is that privately owned stores are totally different that state owned stores from a loyalty perspective.

    Shaun, totally true and something I haven’t thought of. My parents spend considerable time at their house in NC and my Dad’s been all over a couple of local abc stores with no success.

    Agreed on the ABC point. For those that live in areas like that, or in large metropolitan areas where independent shops are outnumbered by the big stores, it’s a little different.

    Also consider that not all the new callers/inquiries are from flippers or hype hunters. Those types have made it more difficult for us dedicated folks to find interesting bottles, forcing us to check out territories we never had to in the past. In that way, the person who calls in could be an opportunity to get a NEW dedicated customer.

    For instance, I had to expand my store radius this year for the Van Winkle stuff. I’m #15 on a wait list at a store four hours away that I’ve never been in before. The man on the phone was very considerate, and understood that I wasn’t a hype hunter. He mentioned that they got more than 15 bottles last year and that I should be good. We talked about other stuff he had in stock, too. Rest assured that if I do get a call I’ll be buying a lot more than my one bottle of Van Winkle from him when I make the trip, and that I’ll go out of my way to stop in when I’m travelling through.

    Yesterday, Fishpaws in Arnold, MD (a great store) announced 7 bottles on their Facebook page. Sold out in about 20 minutes. Unfortunately, I didn’t make it in time

    I live in the Cincinnati area. I have my “go-to” bottle shop here, and am in very good standing with the store owners.

    The person at the store in charge of purchasing told me that “We don’t get Pappy, Stagg, Lee, or any of those fancy rare bourbons. We don’t get any of that rare sh!t because the state decides what we do and don’t receive. Gotta love the state.”

    Is that true, or was he giving me a line? We don’t have ABC stores here, so I feel like his comment is bunk.

    Unfortunately, that is most likely true. OH is terrible for bourbon with most going to restaurants. I do know a guy that got a couple bottles on Van Winkle last year but that was because they were intended for a restaurant that didn’t want multiple bottles

    Ugh. Not to say that all this “work” of becoming a familiar face was a waste (I still get heads up on beer releases), but it is definitely sad that we are 15 minutes from KY and can’t get much of the KY love up here.

    I hear the line to get a bottle at The Party Source will be fierce this year.

    I’m also in Cincinnati and have bought a lot of bottles from party source over the years. If you are waiting on an email about party source’s release you are going to be disappointed. I have it on good authority that they are not doing that anymore, and primarily because people camped out overnight last year and they are not interested in having that kind of liability.

    Lol…that would be nice. No, I have just come to grips that they are now so huge that I just can’t count on them for anything rare anymore.

    Just spoke with someone at Total Wine in MD. The employee confirmed that this location had received their distribution of Pappy, but that they would only be releasing bottles to their “most valued customers.” The employee was very honest, almost to the point of being upset at Total Wine’s policy, and said that the shipment is sitting in the store but that “corporate is hoarding it.” We discussed the fact that this location does not have a customer card program, so there is really no way to track who is a frequent customer. We were both equally frustrated.

    Wow. I heard from someone that one of the Total Wine stores in NJ never released any of it to the public. They held onto it and did a private sale of their allocation at a markup to collect the profits, while the buyer takes it to the black market for even more.

    And check out how much they are jacking up the prices…
    Pappy Van Winkle 12 year old 494.99
    Pappy Van Winkle 15 year old 869.95
    Pappy Van Winkle 20 Year Family Reserve 999.95
    Pappy Van Winkle 23 Year Family Select 1994.95

    i agree and disagree with the whole loyalty thing… i travel way too much and have to move on a fairly regular basis. never anywhere for more than a couple of years. i do find a couple bottle shops to frequent but, i can’t stand it when folks have the inventory but hold it for the regulars. i do understand it but, for guys like me, it kinda sucks.

    Totally agree with you. My wife and I are both in the military, moving every 18-24 months – so, yeah, being a “loyal” customer is hard to do. Been in MD, DC, TN, KY, and VA – still not able to secure one bottle of PVW.

    I move around a bit too and it is hard to establish yourself as a regular anywhere.

    That said, it can be done and I certainly will never begrudge an owner for rewarding their best customers. Loyalty is uncommon. I think patronizing a local store (as opposed to a Total Wine or large national chain such as that) is a better route as you can get to know people quickly.

    The times I have gotten PVW and BTAC have been by being a regular customer through the year, inquiring, but probably just as important making sure the owner knows you aren’t going to walk out the door and sell it to the highest bidder.

    Sometimes, though, I wonder if it is worth it. Sure, PVW is pretty fantastic, but as has been noted, there are others that are in the ballpark for far less money and far, far less heartache when trying to find it. Maybe we just let it go for a few years, then come back when the supply is more in line with the demand.

    I’m in the same situation (both in the military). I’m not well networked with retailers or distributors, and not willing to pay 5-10x markup, so I guess I’m just hoping for some luck. Unfortunately, just asking seems to aggravate retailers now.

    Yes, my experience too. It’s kind of like “oh this again…..no we don’t have any and not sure if/when we will get some.” I also hear “three year wait list” all the time but it doesn’t matter if I’m asking about BTAC or Pappy, kind of seems like a standard line that is used.

    Pappy hit Madison, WI today. I haven’t seen a bottle, but Hyvee got their delivery of 10 bottles this morning and they disappeared quickly.

    Anybody have any luck in Virginia? Stopped by an ABC today after being told of a truck delivery for Tuesday. Nothing….unless I’m being duped.

    Was able to get two bottles of the 15 year yesterday at the ABC store. Each store is different. Spoke with the manager at my local store and he said some places horde it for their best customers; some keep it in the back until someone asks for it; and some will just put it on the shelf first come, first serve. I know some stores have their own “local wait list” as well.

    Good luck!

    Sorry, Ryan, but can you tell me where you were able to pick up those bottles from the ABC store? I am in DC, and everyone I have called in VA has told me it is only available on the Special Order list that is closed. I was told it won’t even be put out on the shelves. I am willing to take a roadtrip if what I have been told is incorrect. Thanks.

    Carl, those managers are pulling your strings. I read the email one store manager showed me that said 10 and 15 year may be on shelves but for one time buys. Most of the employees do not know if they will have it but the regional manager implied each store would have at least one. The best thing to do is talk to the managers at each store. I did a formal complaint on one store manager because he was lying to my face last night. He first said pappy would not be available until Christmas. When I called him on his bluff, he told me another wrong date of arrival. This was while he had a smirk that went from ear to ear.

    Carl, I picked up mine in Tysons Corner. Just got off the phone with the Special Order folks. Here’s the deal for VA: the 10 and 15 year are in and will be going out to stores. Shipments started yesterday and will be going on over the next 2-3 weeks. The 12 year (Lot B) and the 20 year are allocated and will not be put on the shelves. VA received 750 bottles of the 20 year! (much more than I had imagined). However, every drop has been allocated, some at 3 bottles per person. Virginia is done taking any orders for PVW as the wait list for the 12 yr and the 20 yr are over 3 years long. The 10 and 15 yrs are up in the air. Most importantly, once the wait lists are cleared, VA will be starting a new process. The folks in the Special Order office have no idea what that process will be, seeing they have about 3+ years to figure it out. Also of note – VA is not allocated any 23 year PVW…none. They don’t even take any orders for it any longer. Hope this info helps. Good luck on the search!

    Thanks, Ryan. I appreciate the help. I am going to keep at it. Hopefully, something pans out for me and I get a bottle.

    My “local” Indian liquor Mart owner here in Florida flat out told me that he got 9 bottles last year and never puts them out. He saves them for his best customers. He pointed out how upset he is with people chasing it down just to sell at inflated prices and feels he’s helping his best customers out and the industry by offering it to people who will drink it. He said when people call or come in that he doesn’t know, he just says he doesn’t have any. He Did the same thing with a locally hot pumpkin beer called Good Gourd, then showed me two bottles under the counter. It is what it is.

    I passed on some ORVW 10 year at $200+ and Lot B 12 year at $400+ here in MD today. I am hoping the two raffels I am in with more reasonable prices come through. Not gonna pay more than double retail!

    I am hearing from Total Wine in AZ that they are not getting any Pappy allotment this year. Anyone else heard this? Bevmo is on an invitation only distribution this year as well.

    They will get some. They are a huge Buffalo Trace seller. I have heard every spectrum of the story from them. Bevmo did move to a lottery though.

    Well I struck out in Virginia, kind of what I expected. The ABC stores in my area confirmed that they had received their pappy allocations and that all bottles were reserved for people on waiting list. One store only received two bottles in total. I was also told that if people on the list didn’t claim their bottle or if their phone number was disconnected the store was required to send the bottles back to the main ABC warehouse where it would be allocated to someone else on the waiting list. Plus moving forward there is no list to get on, the current list is closed.

    I called two Total Wine stores in my area and this is what I was told.

    Store 1: “We were expecting a shipment but got an email either last week or this week from the distributor saying to expect delivery in the spring.”

    Store 2: “We are not getting any. PERIOD!”

    Funny thing is store number one told me a month ago, over the phone, the allotment they were getting and the cost per bottle and when to expect delivery. Went in personally over a week ago and was told the same thing. Today a different story.

    Frustration has officially taken me over.

    I have been doing some hunting in the Richmond area this past week. I will be going to several of the stores tomorrow that get their shipments in on Thursdays. The rest should be showing up on Friday. If anyone is interested in splitting up the list of stores to check shoot me an email. Plan on being at the first store at 9:50 on the 13 store list I’ve made of the Richmond area ABC stores that will get their shipments in tomorrow. Has anyone had any luck calling the store prior to opening or when they open and received information over the phone as to if they received any allocations in? The 13 stores will take 2 hours for me to complete by using route optimization but if I can call stores while traveling it could cut down on travel time. Anyway if anyone in the Richmond area wants to team up on the hunt let me know.

    Not feeling too hopeful. NC is brutal! I am awaiting to see if I won the Orange County lottery. Are all of those bottles gone, John?

    Not sure… the state ABC website has a product search. It doesn’t show availability, but it does show which distributors handle what product for different areas. Often times, the releases have more to do with the distributor rather than the state.

    For NC – check with all the counties around you. Each county does it differently (Lottery, list, email blast, luck, gold-ol’ boy system)

    The lady is Gaston county told me all three bottles had been claimed already (this was at 9:45 and then open at 9:00) I imagine it’ll be hitting other counties soon.

    Good luck!

    Any luck with deliveries in NY yet? I’ve been stopping into my local liquor store every day to and from work hoping to get lucky. Another store yesterday told me there is a wholesaler strike…not sure if that’s BS and just a way to get me out of that store lol

    BevMo in CA with be handling the Pappy release the same as the BTAC release. Club members will get an email with instructions. I responded to the BTAC email 3 minutes after I got it and was told I was too late, better luck next year. Accordding to the customer service rep the email will come out late November.

    I responded in less than a minute and got the same result – nada BTAC! Their customer service rep was sympathetic and said that they got 4000 responses in 4 minutes and only had 500 bottles. I responded back with “yeah, but you’re telling me that 500 folks beat my 1-minute response?! She said it might be due to my ISP. If that is the case i have virtually no chance at getting the Pappy! 🙁

    Hi Keith – I am just going out on a limb that HOPEFULLY they send this email out at the same time in each state. Do you remember what time you got it so I an e ready? Im trying to get this for a wedding gift for my fiance. 🙂 Thanks

    While Maryland “Open State” has received their shipment of PVW – Montgomery County is due to arrive…if it hasn’t already. Being a direct suburb of Washington, DC – their allocation is a little larger than the rest of the state. Here is their process:

    They will NOT be allocating the Pappy Van Winkle line via email time stamp as in previous years. This year, they will be allocating bottles through a lottery. For people fortunate enough to be on the list, the top 3 preferences for the Pappy line were submitted this week and a number was assigned to each person. The entire PVW line is available. Between Thursday and Friday (30-31 Oct), a team of employees at DLC will draw numbers; bottles will then be assigned (1 per person) to the corresponding customer. Results will be out no later than Friday, November 7.
    Per the email, they year will only be able to satisfy less than 10% of the customers on the list.
    Good luck to anyone on the list!

    Western NC (specifically Asheville) received 30 bottles of Pappy and all 30 went to restaurants. I was able to score one of only 3 ORVW 10 delivered to a different county south of Asheville. I feel lucky for that find, otherwise very brutal day for other Pappy drinkers in my area who will be enjoying their Pappy at the local bars for $25/shot. Ugh.

    If you find for $25 a shot, let me know. That’s the cheapest I’ve ever seen it.

    Atleast you can try a little at a local shop though.. i guess that’s better than flippers sucking all of it up and selling it at outrageous prices.

    What!? That’s ridiculous. I pitty the fool who pays $155 for a 2 oz pour. For that $ you can get 1 or 2 full bottles of another bourbon at least as good, if not better, just without all the hype…

    I am that fool. I payed $150 for a 1.5 oz pour of Pappy 23. It was delicious! It was everything I hoped it would be, but yes, I could have spent that money on something less expensive, and enjoyed just as much.

    For some people… that’s the only way they’ll ever get to try it.

    Atleast it was a 2 oz pour… I’ve head of people paying well over $50 for 0.75 oz pour. That’s like two or three sips!

    I am a restauranteur in OHIO, and got it on authority from the distributor that the reduced PAPPY allocation is landing in Ohio in the next two weeks.

    Just a heads up; it never hits teh shelves; most is already allocated and protected for restaurants.

    Yep, Fort Wayne, Indiana received bottles this morning. 17 bottles at the first location I called, so much better than last year 🙂

    I was browsing my favorite local liquor store last night. The owner and I have built a decent relationship because of our love of bourbon. He told me that his distributor has confirmed that he’ll be getting 3 cases of PVW! 3 bottles each of 10, 12, and 20. None of it will be shelved because we live in a very small, rural town that consumes mostly Rich and Rare or Crown Royal if you’re a “real whiskey drinker”. I gag every time someone orders a Crown and Coke here. He’s generously promised me a bottle of the 20 and said that depending on demand, I may get a crack at one of the other bottles. There are only a handful of bourbon drinkers here so my chances are promising. I’ll wait until they actually show up before confirming my location for the map. Cheers and good luck everyone!

    @John from Ohio
    Would you be able to elaborate on the reduced Pappy allotment? Are we talking 10 bottles? 100 bottles? I’m in Columbus and trying to track down a bottle from the local retailers, but it sounds as though I had might as well give up. Thanks for any additional info you can provide.

    Drew-

    Honestly: Give up. Winking Lizard gets most fo it in Ohio. There were about (last year) 60-70 bottles for ALL of cleveland. I assuem Columbus is similar.

    You’ll never see a bottle on a shelf; since liquor stores in ohio are run by consignment, and the liquor brokers dictate who gets what, 90% of the bottles will land in restaurants. The rest will be held by liquor store owners, who will either buy themselves or sell to their regulars.

    Go to the WInking Lizard’s Whiskey Bars (called LIZARDVILLE) and buy a shot. Reasonable prices.

    Travis, i’ve often had dreams – fantasies – about walking into a little mom and pop store and seeing PVW just sitting there, on a shelf, unbeknownst to anyone.

    Closest I came to that was last year, about January, when I walked into a store and found a bottle of George T Stagg sitting in front of a row of Stagg Jr….

    Here in NJ, the lowest price i’ve found Pappy 20 for is $500, and even at that price it lasted about 10 minutes from the time it was put into the special “locked case” until someone came in and whipped out their credit card.

    *sigh* guess i’ll have to wait a few more years for supply to pick up. Doesn’t mean I won’t keep hunting tho, for a “just in case” moment like you had! Congrats on your find, and enjoy it!

    P.S. – best picture you posted was the one of the opened bottle of 20… exactly as it was supposed to be. Finally, someone found this stuff at (what I assume to be) retail price and got to enjoy it. Cheers!

    Sorry, I’m not going to share right now because the owner told me he would try to get more for me and took my number. He had no clue what he had. I took everything he had.

    Here’s my current stock
    http://i.imgur.com/BaBjWaGl.jpg

    Bob, I felt like I won the lotto. Went in there to get vodka for the wife and saw the ORVW 10 and did a double take… Saw the rest and started sweating and shaking a bit. When I got it in the car I think I had some tears in my eyes. I’m not in it for the money, I’m in it for the bourbon.

    I just went by our local supposed great liquor store to see if I could get on a list for when Pappy arrives here in Long Beach Ca. What the guy told me was that they plan on holding it, and selling it at the highest market price. I find this really unscrupulous, especially since reading all the great deals other on this site have been getting it for. I guess I need to move to North Carolina.

    Yes it is. I’m really bugged by this. I don’t mind paying a premium, I’ve payed $150 for a 1.5 oz pour, I understand it’s very limited, but when they said they were able to sell 23 for $2200 last year, it just seems wrong, and I just don’t want to support them. On much of their other stock, they have competitive prices.
    I am not going to worry about trying to get any Pappy this year. There is many other bourbons that I like (ah hem, four roses), I’ll just focus on getting more of those.

    I saw one that was listed on Bottle Spot as a 2014 release, coming from someone in a state that has released its allotment. It had a wax seal, which I thought was odd (and imagine is easier to counterfeit a wax seal than foil). It’s sad how many bottles are already on the secondary market from the states that have released so far.

    I have been out of town, but my wife ran around for me in MD and scored me a 10, 15 and 23. She had no idea how amazing this was. I know another store there that last year held onto it for regulars and i got a 15 for 130. This year they were selling btac for 199 a piece. 10 yr for 199, 20 for 600 and 23 for 800. I emailed old rip van winkle bc they have said the secondary market is BS and they want people to enjoy it. I got a response back from Preston van winkle saying they will contact the distributor and have them cut this stores allotment for next year! I hope so, bunch of crap that store is trying to cash in and money doesn’t go to distillery. Quick question, I’ve never tasted 2 of same pappy from different years, the 15 I got this year has B13 on it, So do tthey taste similar year to year or each different?

    Mecklenburg County (North Carolina) just sent out an email to those on the email list.

    It’s just first come first serve for whoever replies to the email.

    I liked what they did… they said restaurants account for 36% of sales, so 36% of the bottles will be allotted to them… everything else goes to customers.

    They didn’t say how much they got, but did say they got every type. 10/12/15/20/23.

    I’ve got my fingers crossed that I responded fast enough!

    More importantly, when did you receive the email? I have two friends on the list (in addition to me) and we all three have different time stamps of when it was received. I have that the email came in at 9:56 and I responded at 9:58.

    Earlier this year, I was told by a MeckABC store manager that last year the allocation was spoken (via email response) 3 minutes after the email was sent.

    Fingers crossed.

    The email I got from them was time stamped at 9:56 as well.

    I responded at 10:01, and I got a response saying that I had made the cut and would hear back tomorrow in regards to which bottle I could get.

    I know some else that was only a couple minutes after me, and hasn’t heard back. Did you hear anything yet?

    If you’re in the Charlotte Area, Frugal McDogals in Fort Mill is doing a lottery for BTAC/Pappy. They should be getting their allotments any day.

    Also, Did you respond to the email that they sent? You had to send a new email to the marketing managers who’s email address was in the message.

    John, I responded to the Marketing Managers email for Retail as it instructed. What bottle(s) did you ask for?

    Daniel – My request list was 15/20/12/whatever is left, in that order.

    I got a call from the MeckABC today. She said I got a bottle of 12yr, and could pick it up between tomorrow and the 13th.

    I was really hoping to land some of the 15 or 20, but I will not complain about the 12!

    Any word on South Carolina locations? I’m calling around and most stores are still waiting. I know there’s a few places along the coast that have a surplus of 2013, buts it’s sitting on the shelves for $800.

    I heard back that I was getting one, but I haven’t gotten an email stating which one. I imagine it takes a while to work through the list and all of the preferences. My hat’s off to how they handle this!

    Any word on if Kentucky’s release was all of the state, or just Lexington? Everything I am seeing so far is Lexington (I think), so I am hoping a Louisville release here in the following day or two.

    Just spoke with the head guy at MeckABC. If you haven’t received an email back from them, you’re out of luck this year. Mecklenburg County (North Carolina) received 168 bottles (of all years). 107 were allocated to retail (email blast to customers mentioned earlier) with the rest reserved for restaurants. They received 490 emails in the first 9 minutes and only had 19 bottles of PVW 20 (which is what I was personally after). Best of luck in everyone’s continued hunt.

    I live in Louisvile KY and it makes me sick the people that walk in and buy every bottle just to turn them on the secondary market. Wish there was a limit one per person.

    Pappy is out in MA. Ball Sq Fine Wines in Somerville got their 4 bottle allotment (10, 12, 15, 20) today and it went it 10 minutes. I wasn’t able to make it in time. You can check their Facebook page to see for yourselves.

    There are still some random bottle of the VW 10 year and 12 year in Virginia. Got a call from my local ABC store today – the got two bottles of the 10 year in and were nice enough to put one aside for me. Manager said there are still random bottles floating around out there. Good luck!

    Party source in Bellevue Ky is rumored to have several bottles being distributed Wednesday morning. There are already 2 people in line.

    TPS got their allocation. According to an employee facebook post that was later deleted – they didn’t get as much as they planned. They are going to tell everyone it will come out at odd times as cover.

    The Party Source email just hit my inbox:

    Okay, we surrender! Try as we have over the last few years to devise a fair method to allocate Van Winkle products to our customers, the rabid demand has become too much. We have tried to hold our supply in the past in order to trickle it out in December to unsuspecting customers, but it appears that we can no longer do that. We have had to reevaluate this process due to overwhelming and unrelenting demand. So here it is:

    When the doors open at 8:00 am EST, Friday, November 7, 2014, sales will be limited to the customer’s choice of ONE BOTTLE TOTAL of the following per person / per household, on a first come basis, while supplies last:

    Pappy Van Winkle’s Family Reserve 23 Year – $221.99
    Pappy Van Winkle’s Family Reserve 20 Year – $125.99
    Pappy Van Winkle’s Family Reserve 15 Year – $67.95
    Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye 13 Year – $83.99
    Van Winkle Special Reserve 12 Year Lot B – $49.99
    Old Rip Van Winkle 10 Year 107 Proof – $41.99

    In addition to this year’s Van Winkle allocation, customers may also choose ONE BOTTLE TOTAL of the following per person / per household, on a first come basis, while supplies last:

    Willett Single Barrel Bourbon 12 Year TPS Private Barrel #8141 – $104.99
    Willett Single Barrel Bourbon 10 Year TPS Private Barrel #1410 – $88.99
    Willett Single Barrel Bourbon 10 Year TPS Private Barrel #1386 – $88.99
    Willett Single Barrel Bourbon 9 Year TPS Private Barrel #7143 – $72.99

    Again, sales of these whiskeys are first come, first serve. There is no waiting list, and The Party Source cannot hold or sell bottles in advance, or take sales by phone. These products are offered for in-store purchase only and will not be available online.

    Your Spiritual Advisors @ The Party Source

    Has anyone else received the Party Source email Chris posted? I got last year’s email regarding the PVW release, but haven’t received this one yet.

    Is the Party Source the one in Louisville? I just called and the guy at the store said the one in Bellevue wasn’t releasing their Pappy until December.

    This is the TPS in Bellevue, Ky, for sure. I live in Cincinnati and am on their newsletter for beer and for their spirits/wine. The past couple of years they haven’t issued an email like this, so it’s definitely a surprise. I won’t be in town to stake out a bottle…so good luck to you all.

    Surely if you call TPS in Bellevue, they should confirm this email/newsletter announcement.

    I got there at 10:30 and walked away with an ORVW 10 and a Willett, though I think there were only a few ORVWs by that point.

    Saw a posting that said there were 400 people in line for The Party Source Bellevue sale … have to figure at least half went home unhappy, right?

    We were about 140 in line and were among the last to get bottles of Pappy 15. One per person. We arrived at around 5:45 for the 8:00 am open. No idea how much of the 10, 12 etc. they had but it seemed like a good bit after us. For the people giving TPS a hard time, they could not have been better with the crowd and the way they treated the people in line.

    There will always be the complainers but from what I’ve heard and seen TPS did a great job listening to their customers and trying to come up with a fair way of releasing it

    I think TPS got a ton of 10 and 12. I got to the store around 10:15-10:30 (after the lines, as a friend texted and said the store still had bottles) and ended up with a bottle of 10 and 12 (had a friend help get the second bottle as only one per customer). I had to have been one of the last to leave with something though. They really did a great job with the release this year though.

    Just curious how many ky buyers got B13 xxxx xxxxx in their purchases this year. Picked up a Pappy 15 and it was last years laser code. Same thing happened in WV. Could BT have recovered the “stolen” cases from a years ago and be floating them out with the 14?

    I picked up a PVW15 in MD last week and it also has a B13 code. Shouldn’t the ’14 bottles start with B14 xxxx xxxxx? I’d be interested to hear if they are floating some ’13 bottles out with this fall release. Not that I mind or anything, I was able to pick up a ’13 PVW15 last year as well and it was delicious!

    the laser code on my PVW15 is B13 273 08:41N. Any way to determine if that’s last year’s release or if it should be a ’14?

    I am sure this is not new info, but the way the codes are suppose to work is, that it is Buffalo Trace 2013, bottled on the 273 day of the year (Sept 30th) at 8:41 am in bottle line “N”.

    I was lucky enough to score 2 bottles in MI… a 15 year and a 23 year. The 15 year is a B13 and the 23 is a B14… I remembered seeing this conversation and thought I would mention it.

    I got a ORVW 12 yr B13 just purchased. Was a bit confused and just assumed that the store sat on it, but that wouldn’t make sense….

    Pappy is in East Tennessee. Got my bottle of 20 year last night in Knoxville. My store got 2 20 year bottles and they were both gone claimed via the wait list months ago. They got no 23, but had a few 12 and 15.

    What store was that? There’s a store that I’m on the mailing list for and they did no wait list and will email blast.

    Thanks,

    Dave

    When these distributions are hitting, is this defined as the distributors have it? Or has been released to the liquor stores/restaurants?

    I was at Liquor Barn on Hurstbourne in Louisville at 10 P.M. on Monday and was number 12 in line I was able to pick up a 20 year old bottle then get back in line and pick up a 10 year old bottle. From there I went to Liquor Barn on Fern Valley and was able to pick up another 10 year old bottle. Then to Beverage Warehouse in Shively where I picked up a 12 year old bottle. It was the longest I have stayed awake since college but was totally worth it. No none of it is for sale.

    Ryan can’t believe they still had some at 10PM. Did you mean AM or did it really last that long? Thanks and good job hunting.

    To Dave :
    Most stores Like Liquor Barn, Party Source, and Beverage Warehouse that get the biggest amount of Pappy have a one bottle per trip through the line policy. That was at least my experience yesterday. If there hadn’t been a 1 bottle per person limit I can assure no one behind me in line would have gotten a bottle. Hell I doubt I would have got a bottle being number 12.

    Liquor Barn on Hurstbourne Lane got about 80 bottles. Liquor Barn on Fern Valley Rd got about the same. Beverage warehouse in Shively only got 4 bottles 2 10’s, 1 12, and 1 15.

    I’m hoping someone out there will be able to dispel some of the mystery surrounding the VA distribution plan this year (if there is one). I will admit I’m rather stumped by the ABC’s policy. Multiple ABC locations near DC have told me that they have not received their distribution yet, after looking up my order in the system and confirming that I am on the waitlist. I see no reason for them to lie about receiving their distribution to someone who has a confirmed special order. Despite this, some people have reported picking up bottles in the surrounding DC areas of VA (possibly leftover ’13 bottles), some of which are apparently not on special order or waitlist. Do we know if there is there any concerted distribution timeline for the state of VA? Are there truly bottles being sent out that do not fall under the special order status (I’ve heard some say 10 year and 15 year)? I’m beginning to think that the VA distribution is a bit of a free for all, with each store implementing its own policy, and certain stores receiving their allotments far ahead of others in the same area.

    Peter,
    Different stores receive shipments at different times. Two stores I live near in hybla valley get liquor trucks on separate days (either tues or thurs). None of those stores received anything last week. I was told by special ordering dept that the limited allocations will go to about 40 percent of the stores in the area within 2-3 weeks. That was last week so now the window is 1-2 weeks. Not every store gets it…..I assume they give to the ones that have the most big money spenders. I’ve asked many stores in the low income areas.

    Norfolk Virginia area got pappy last week. The stores received bottles with a name on it for someone from the waiting list. I’m not aware of any stores that just received a box to sell on the shelf or as they see fit, in other words it was all earmarked for wait list people.

    The Virginia Beach stores received their allocations this week. Same deal all bottles were delivered to stores for sale to a specific person on the wait list. I’m not aware of any stores that received a box to just sell as they please to anyone.

    I have heard that stores in Richmond and Northern Virginia received more pappy some of which was not earmarked for one specific person and went onto the shelf. If I had to guess the bottles on the shelf lasted about 2 seconds.

    I read online that the quantity of pappy distributed in Virginia is based on regional demand. In Hampton Roads area the highest demand is for Vodka so we receive a very limited allocation of Pappy and other limited/special bourbons. In Northern Virginia, Scotch and imported vodka are king so they get more of that and less of bourbon. According to the article in Richmond, Lynchburg, and points west bourbon is king and therefore they get the most……it is what it is.

    Thanks for weighing in, Tom and Shaun. It sounds like each store, or at least each region of VA, has its own timeline and approach to PVW distribution. Will be interested to see how VA ABC decides to handle PVW in the future once they get all the backordered special purchases cleared out.

    Montgomery County, MD lottery results came out this afternoon. The numbers before and after my number got in there. Unreal!

    101 total bottles
    PVW23 – 10 bottles
    PVW20 – 24 bottles
    PVW15 – 12 bottles
    Lot B – 17 bottles
    ORVW10 – 31 bottles
    Rye – 7 bottles

    Definitely not the distribution I expected!

    yep, just found out that i got a bottle of ORVW10….was hoping for 15, 20, 23. I have two bottles of ORVW10 if anyone wants to trade…

    Also, 99% sure Pappy came out in DC today. One store (Circle Wine) told me it hadn’t come in yet but Chevy Chase Wine said it came in today and was gone. Heard a customer in there talking to the owner about how crazy the prices have gotten for it.

    DC has become a very tough market for limited releases. Because there are no big box liquor stores in the district, stores (mostly smaller neighborhood liquor shops) that do get PVW generally try to sell what little they receive at a premium. There are still some good stores in pockets of DC that don’t gouge, but they are few and far between.

    I stopped in five places between about noon and two and my timing was just a little off, because none of them had it and then I know at least one of them got it in the afternoon and it was gone by six when a friend stopped by. Pretty sure I know which Conn Ave store you’re referring to, Dubbs. After seeing their prices on other stuff, I decided it wasn’t even worth it to try going back there. Thankfully I’m on the list at one place and got my bottle of 15 this afternoon.

    Ive seen huge variance in prices in DC. ETL from 30 to 80. Whistle pig 10 from 70 to 200. Crazy. I was able to score a bottle of Lot B yesterday. I’m on the list at another place and hopeful for a 15 or 20. Good luck to all.

    I got call the other day that they had saved me of the 20 from VA. But the ones in NC I was assured of getting, fell through. The one source, I believe the manager is totally legit, but the guys that run the ABC in the county I actually live are shady characters, I have been flat out lied to by them numerous times and is why I no longer shop there, I am sure that was a good ole boy system or they put them away for themselves.

    I’d prefer people not mention the store in the comments unless it’s general like Liquor Barn or Total Wine. Mentioning the city is OK. People will continue to read these comments and 99.9999% of the time that store is already sold out by the time someone reads it. Especially if it’s a small local shop

    I have the day off today, so I’m doing a canvas of central NJ stores. Since BTAC hasn’t even been seen in the wild here yet, I’m doubtful I’ll find any pappy, but if I do, I’ll be sure to update store name and location here and try to spread the love! Wish me luck!

    Any word on Louisiana? Going down to NOLA this weekend and hoping it is released this weekend. Last year it was released 11/6/2013, hoping for some good news 🙂

    Anyone know why the Chicago release is so late (around Thanksgiving?) if Southern Illinois already released as well as other neighboring states?

    It’s been out in South Jersey since Thursday …. and mostly gone. No luck at the small stores. The retailer I scored at last year, who I put most of my faith in this year, unfortunately did not receive a shipment. Most places I contacted sold out their small allotments (under 5/6 bottles) within 30 minutes.

    Octonats, for the most part, stores haven’t receive yet. Only a few large stores received their shipments so far (Wegmans, Total Wine). I am thinking the retailer you got yours at last year just hasn’t received it yet.

    Chris,
    Respectfully… I think unfortunately you may be wrong (though I hope you’re right). Multiple “other small stores” I’ve contact in central and south Jersey said they’ve sold out….

    Hey Octonats, well I certainly could be. I would just be very surprised if each of the stores that I know got Pappy last year and have every year for the past few years, got absolutely none this year. Some of these are stores that I got Pappy at least year, including one that received 12 bottles. Again, I could be wrong, but I’d just be very surprised if a store went from 12 bottles one year to 0 the next.

    Last week I was fortunate enough to have my name on a list at an establishment in Hopewell, NJ…. was rewarded with a 20yr.

    Anyone have any updates on NJ? No one I have talked to seems to know too much about release date. I managed to put my name down at some places that said they usually get some, but aren’t in super high traffic areas, so they didn’t mind taking my name down.

    Pappy and BTAC finally got in all the Goody Goody stores in the Dallas metro area today and most are already sold out…managed to cop a couple Pappy and BTAC

    Hello Puff,
    I spoke with store owners in PA that I am friends with. They said their shipments would be in before thanksgiving. Also, if you are close to NJ. I ve talked to store owners there, that tell me they will get their allotments in the next 10 days or less.

    My name was picked in a lottery and I can choose between the 12yo ($80) or Rye($120)… The guy said it’s the only bottle of rye they received. Thoughts?

    Where are you hearing the rye will be discontinued? This is the second time I’ve heard that but find it very hard to believe that BT would discontinue one of their most sought after products at the height of its popularity.

    Not saying it’s being discontinued, just that I’ve heard that the current stocks predate Buffalo Trace, and once they’re gone, they’ll be gone forever. The Buffalo Trace make, once it takes over, may be just as good, but it’ll likely be at least somewhat different. But who knows, maybe they’re changing over gradually, 5 or 10% at a time, and maybe it’s happening already, or even has been happening for a while.

    Went with the rye… Also scored a BTAC Stagg while there. $89 each

    Also scored a 10yo pappy for $59 at another store in SC .

    I’m not sure if this helps with some of the Total Wine issues I’m seeing from the East. When you call Total Wine in AZ we are told that all of the Total Wine stores in AZ will pool their allotment of PVW and then distribute them from one location sometime in February. So, technically those stores are not receiving PVW, but Total Wine will make them available to the general public. Not sure why February, but the message is consistent in AZ.

    Interesting, I had a Total Wine employee in Southern CA tell me they were not getting PVW until Feb, but I assumed he was just BSing me. I wonder if other areas are doing something similar.

    They’ve been saying the same thing down here in Dallas. Thy said corporate sent out a letter to all stores saying theyre not getting until Feb.

    Just saw that Total Wine mentioned this in a reply on Twitter:

    “We will not be selling any Pappy this year. The selling plan for our limited allocation will be communicated in February.”

    “At the earliest we could be selling it in March, but most likely not.”

    https://twitter.com/TotalWine/status/528191779037011969

    So is Buffalo Trace and Old Rip Van Winkle just totally cool with one of the biggest retailers in the country sitting (presumably) on their bourbon for four to five months instead of selling it to customers?

    I just wanted to let everyone know; PVW has been released in the DC area, regardless of what stores tell you, they should have it. Most stores, including my own, are probably already sold out but it never hurts to ask. Unfortunately for a lot of the hunters out there, or even casual drinkers, the MSRP will 99% of the time not be honored here; a lot of the stores are independent and can sell it for whatever they want. I can tell you that it usually resembles the prices found online. A couple of different people asked me earlier to name bourbons/ryes that are as good ( I taste these things for a living). I just want to emphasize the fact that PVW is fantastic; however, is it worth the price, especially now a days? I honestly can’t say but here are a couple of whiskeys that I have found to be as good for a lot less :

    Let’s start with my favorite category, RYE:
    WhistlePig: 10 or 11 Year; I’ll say it right here and now, I think Whistlepig makes an equally good if not better product, even if they are a big disingenuous about where they get there RYE from.
    Willet’s Bourbon (of all shapes and sizes) again not necessarily easy to find but it will more often then not cost a very reasonable amount.

    I could go on but I won’t; there are lots of great whiskeys out there, Pappy is without a doubt one of them but is it really worth all the fuss? Also, as a shopowner, I just wanted to encourage you all; I could of sold the small allotment of PVW that I got for a lot of money but I didn’t, I sold it for pretty close to MSRP to some choice customers whom I know will enjoy it. I’m not gonna lie, I held on to the 1 23 year I got, debating on whether or not I want to pay my mortgage with it : ) . Cheers and Happy Hunting, wish you all the best of luck.

    Blake,
    Thank you for this PVW bourbon blog. If it had not been for the map and the readers comments,I might not have my bottle of 15. When I saw South Carolina highlighted,I drove down to the liquor store and they had received their the PVW within that hour. Thank You
    Jim

    East end liquor and wine in Knoxville, TN has some Pappy including a bottle of 20yr. It’s for sale at a reasonable 1540% markup. (Sarcasm)

    The guy who recommended making friends with your liquor store manager/owner/GM was spot on. My local guy knows I’m a good customer, and I’m always asking if they’ve got anything unique in. Our county (i’m in Arkansas) got 12 bottles, and he got 2; a 23 and a 20 year. I chose the 20 based on preference, and I got out the door for $200 including tax, which is fair to say the least. He also told me that a competitor got a bottle of 20 down the road…I stopped by there and that asshole has a $600 price tag on the same bottle. I love the hunt, I love that I have this in my collection and I love that it’s still hard to find, but I hate gouging. Good luck, friends.

    Also… incase anyone needed more Knoxville info: Pappy and BTAC are sold out everywhere that put them on the shelves this past Tuesday. North Knoxville may get some more Pappy next week (Usually Fridays sometimes Tuesdays) McScrooge’s is hoarding all of their BTAC and Pappy for a mystery release date (we’ll see if that happens). The owner of Toddy’s puts bottles out on the shelves at random to make people’s day and keep people coming in (which is really cool in my opinion).

    Thank you, you’re the best. I’ll be checking Toddy’s periodically to see if I can’t get lucky. I’m on McScrooge’s mailing list, so hopefully something comes soon. Also, Cedar Bluff is doing a raffle for the opportunity to purchase at the end of the month.

    I dont know if there is a formal way to file a complaint about the insane mark up that is going on for PVW, but I at least wanted to red flag a store in Delaware that is charging outlandish prices for their PVW stock. Cochran Liquors in Middletown, DE is charging the following prices: PVW 20: $499; PVW 15: $399; ORVW 12: $299; ORVW 10: $199. I made the mistake of not asking their prices when I drove there (it’s pretty far from where I am) and was astonished at the asking price. I would recommend staying as far away from this place as possible. Has anybody looked into filing a claim with the better business bureau or at least reporting these activities to ORVW company? These stores should not receive further allocations if they are going to abuse the privilege – and their customers. I highly doubt Ill get a bottle of PVW this year or in the years to come with how ridiculous this has gotten, but price gouging, croneyism and unfair business practices need to be reported and stopped just for the sake of protecting our community.

    You can contact them directly through their site. Someone else reported a store and they received a response thanking him and telling him that store wont get as many bottles in the years to come

    Thanks for that. I emailed them at the address on the website and I encourage others to do the same. Hopefully this community can help to steer ORVW and its distributors toward only those vendors who will engage in fair business practices.

    Obviously, the Van Winkles don’t like for retailers gouging people but I don’t think there’s much they can do about it. Distributors purchase from Buffalo Trace and legally own the product. They can price it however they want. Same with retailers. I’m sure Van Winkles would like to reduce theses stores allocation but I think that would be the distributors call and they’re more worried about selling thousands of cases of regular BT or Eagle Rare 10. This is just my opinion though. Price gougers are out there but there a very small percentage of retailers.

    When Saratoga Wines pulled the same stunt last year I informed PVW of it: The president of PVW responded and thanked me but said they have no control over where their chosen distributors send the product, but hinted that he would pass on word to the distributor to short the store’s allocation this year if possible: I really hope that that happens!

    Just an update for those waiting for New Hampshire to release. I spoke to someone at the commission as well as several store managers. New Hampshire is exclusively allocating via email requests made throughout the year. As far as anyone with knowledge would tell me, none will be available in stores. That’s not the case with the BTACs, but it is with Pappy’s. If you weren’t notified by email, you’re probably out of luck.

    Any tips for getting anything in NH (BTAC or Pappy or Limited Edition stuff…) Am trying to get something for my husband as a special Christmas present and trying to give myself a crash course in bourbon and whiskey, as I know nothing. Thanks!

    KA,

    For sure you’re too late for Pappys. Many NH stores do not have waiting lists, so you will have to just show up and get lucky. It is first come/first serve at most locations. Good luck!

    I hope this helps, rhode island has some pvw 1776 liquor in bristol, RI has 1 bottle of old rip van winkle for $100 and 1 bottle of pvw 20yrs for $600. Patriots liquor in warren, RI has 1 bottle of van winkle 12yrs for $200 and 1 bottle of pvw 15yrs for $300. I spent alot of time searching I do not believe in paying ridiculous price over retail for a bottle. Unfortunately these liquor stores caught on. I even caught liquor stores understocking. I am from Massachusetts, pvw hasn’t hit shelves yet but once they do I will keep everyone updated

    Ma and ri is not to far from new Hampshire try getting it there. Massachusetts hasn’t released it yet so you have a good chance

    Confirming OHIO for both BTAC and Pappy.

    Reps are HAND DELIVERING the products to the stores that were getting some as we speak.

    Good Luck!

    Pappy: Still waitin’ in Dayton.
    On a couple lists, personally visited 4 stores yesterday, nothing yet.

    BTAC: Only found one store that even carries it and huge list for it already. Seems just as elusive now.

    Went all over in Columbus today looking for Pappy and BTAC. Nowhere indicated they had received anything. Is it possible that just Cleveland got theirs, somehow?

    I thought I had read that Cincinnati got some too (well last week they were posting that, but it was Party Source in Bellevue, KY). All personal indications I’ve received are the same as yours though.

    I stopped in a store just outside of Cincinnati last night. Stopped in to see if they had Pappy or BTAC. When I asked the guy at the counter, he gave a weird look to the back room then said, “No, we don’t have it yet, but we plan on getting it this week.” He then told me that they were probably getting ORVW and GTS only and that they would be holding a lottery, probably around Black Friday. On the plus side, I did finally score a bottle of EH Taylor Single Barrel!

    Picked up 2 bottles in Livonia, MI yesterday. The store received 3 bottles and I picked up one for me and for a friend. Needless to say we were “on the list” at his store.

    Just got my call and picked up Old Rip Van Winkle 10y 107 from Kelly’s Liquor in Albuquerque , NM. I missed the Pappy 15y by one name on the list.

    I attended Party Mart’s Van Winkle distribution, without winning a bottle. I can’t complain it was unfair because I stood right in front of Preston Van Winkle as he drew the wwinning tickets. Still have 2 ORVW’s and a 23, so I’m good.

    Good luck to everyone in their bourbon hunt. I am about done for this fall. Might try a few more places. I am still waiting on an email from a store in Knoxville that is supposed to announce when they will sell their PVW. If anyone has already received this email, please let me know. Went to a lottery at a wine/bourbon bar that is 2 miles from Buffalo Trace distillery. 13 bottles total, 1 23 year, 1 20 year, 1 15 year, 5 12 year, and 5 10 year. Of course, this was what they were selling via the lottery. I know many stores will hold some back for themselves/employees. You would think it would be easier to find in bourbon country, but it is just as hard. The best way I have found to score a bottle of the higher years is find a bigger liquor store that has a first come/first serve policy. And get their early…I’m talking night before early. I was able to score a bottle of the 15 year that way this year. But, the other half of the battle is finding out when the store will be getting their shipment. This is where it pays to make friends with the employees. Calling the store will get you a vague response most of the time.

    Blake, just noticed that you were looking for people to post about any B14 bottles that they came across. The bottle of 15 that I got in DC has a B14 code.

    Does anyone know how Pennsylvania sells their allotment? Do bottles go to the state stores or is it sold through the Fine Wine & Good Spirits webpage, like the limited edition Four Roses was?

    I got 3 bottles in South Carolina today, albeit at a premium price. I got a 20 for $300, a 15 for $250 and a 10 for $150. I know it’s high but I splurged.

    Some places in Chicago received it, but even more have yet to. The only place I found it at today had 10, 12, and 13 yr rye. 10 &12 could only be purchased after first purchasing an additional 4 bottles of whiskey from a designated list. In order to get the rye you had to purchase a whopping 8 BOTTLE of whiskey. I left that fucking place.

    looks like the Binny’s near me in the north chicago burbs have gotten them and have unfortunately, sold out… checked 4 of their stores and they got it today or yesterday and sold out immediately.

    Hey Sorry for the delayed response. That was at Prestige Liquors in Westmont, IL. They got everything, and in addition to making you buy other bottles of whiskey, the prices were jacked way up.

    Confirmed that pappy has started to be distributed in Chicago today. Secured a 10yr and a 12yr lot B today. Not all stores have it yet.

    Has anyone received the emails from BevMo yet detailing the process this year? I’m in CA and a friend received a ‘pre-selection’ email last week saying he was in the top 1% of Bevmo customers, would have a chance to get a bottle and to look out for the ‘ordering’ email. I haven’t seen anything personally yet and am curious if anyone else has received anything from BevMo?

    Pappy is in Nebraska. My buddy just texted me pics of the 20 and 23 at the steak house he works at. Not sure if off premise has received it yet.

    Birmingham, Alabama tomorrow at 10am it is officially on. If you’re not already in line then forget it. I drove by the ABC store not from from my house at 2:45 this afternoon and saw a lone sole camped out. At 5pm there were 3 people. I drove by again at 9pm and there were about a dozen folks.

    Still no luck in Chattanooga, TN. I’m hoping today but we shall see. I’m on a few different lists but probably won’t get any from them. Hoping my store that I’m a regular at comes through since they’re first come first serve.

    Still waiting in NYC. A few local stores that I’m a regular at all seem to think very late November/early December but they’re unsure. Bourbon Buzz retweeted a pic of the 20 year for $1,300 and the 12 year for $600 on sale in NYC today. Unfortunately that is what we have to deal with. Fingers crossed that I find a store actually selling on a first come first serve but everyone seems to be going by a list of an extremely marked up price.

    anthony, i live in NYC too. do you think all stores will get their alotment at the same time? and how many bottles do you think each store will get?

    I’m not sure the owners know the answer to either of these questions yet. If they do, they’re keeping it under wraps, although I’m pretty friendly with them and a good customer so I’m not sure they would do that. I’ll post on here if I hear anything different though.

    I’m actually going to try and pick up some Yamazaki Single Malt Sherry Cask 2013 in Tokyo when I go in a few weeks and try to trade some stores owners for that – that’s got some amazing reviews and isn’t exported to the states.

    I had trouble finding it in Tokyo while visiting there last year so you may be pretty hard pressed to find it. With that said, definitely be sure to leave some room in the luggage for some Japanese bottles; I wasn’t disappointed by a single bottle I brought home.

    If you have your hands on any 2014 bottle, can you post a pic of the laser code so we know what to what to look for to ensure authenticity? I know the original post says the laser code will be in black, B14xxxxxx, but I’ve seen white codes on a bottle in a local store. Unfortunately, not only are we exposed to price gouging, but also fake product being sold. I’ve also seen varying print type from dot matrix style to more of a stamped # look. I know they used dot matrix in the past (as recent as 2012) but another site referenced it recently changed. The bottle of 12 year I did find had similar print type, size and color as a bottle of EH Taylor (also produced by Buffalo Trace) I did purchase, but the ORVW 10-year had a white code in different font, and also located on the front of the bottle. Any advice or help anyone can offer is greatly appreciated, but actual pics preferred.

    Same here, I canvassed all my central NJ stores twice yesterday, and struck out… Greg, where were you able to find it?

    I saw on Twitter that Gary’s Wine and Marketplace did a lottery for a 23 year and sold it on the 12th. Not sure if that was this year’s though…

    Yes, I spoke to a few stores yesterday that I know and today that I know get Pappy, and they do not have it either. I would also have expected some more people claiming to have obtained bottles in NJ by now if it had in fact arrived. As far as Gary’s Wine and Marketplace, they auctioned ONE bottle of 23 year. I am sure a store like that receives much more than one. I can tell you places in NJ that have Pappy from last year but that is because they want ridiculous amounts for it.

    Have yet to find any store in NJ today who has received anything, not even a notification that it’s on its way. Tried 14 stores in the Old Bridge area, didn’t get anywhere with any of them…

    False alarm perhaps. If we can continue to verify there is no Pappy in NJ, can we remove NJ so we’ll be able to tell when someone else reports it?

    I have since calmed down from earlier post, but in complete seriousness given all of our interest in the finest juice, NJ does have pappy – $275 for 23yr.

    NJ presence CONFIRMED. Purchased bottle of 23yr and GTS. Joy to the World, It’s the Most Wonderful Time of the Year, O Holy Night, 12 days of christmas? doesn’t fit, but i’m ecstatic and grasping for straws to quantify my level of exuberance.

    D – any chance you’d be willing to let me know your secret place lol? I only found one store today out of the tons I’ve called that had pappy (buy rite in Tom’s River) and their prices were offensive… Please email me at rphillips1217@gmail.com , and thanks in advance for any knowledge you can bestow!!

    Frank / Chris / Bob – it was in northern, NJ – larger big-box retailer in Bergen county (not total wine) – they had a 23yr, 20yr, 15yr, and lot b 12yr. i had 1st crack at one of any they had. Hope this helps guys best of luck!

    The prices I found at Super Buy Rite of Toms River:

    10 year: $199
    12 year: $349
    15 year: $749
    20 year: $999
    23 year: $1,399

    Hopefully this isn’t the only PVW I find in the wild this year

    Wow – that is downright fowl in terms of pricing Bob. I saw:

    lot b 12yr 42.99
    15yr 79.99
    20yr 159.99
    23yr 274.99

    I found PVW in a store in Montclair right before Thanksgiving. They were out of the Pappy (15,20,23) but had reserved a bottle of the 12 and 10 for me. (called a week before to let me know that I could purchase)

    by the time I arrived they had “sold out” of the 12 they reserved for me (already very upset about that) and then tried to charge $180 for RVW10. I was not happy and walked out.

    Thankfully I was able to score a 23 yr for $350.

    Gary’s in Wayne NJ has received theirs but all are spoken for. Total Wine in NJ is not releasing theirs until spring to avoid the Pappy fervor. Apparently rumor is that big chain stores received theirs and the NJ distributor is deciding what independent stores get what. Standing by.

    Pappy has hit KC, MO…good luck finding a store selling them to random customers. Picked up 1 12 year but do a lot of business with that store.

    if possible, please email where in New Jersey! I am starting to panic, I don’t know what I will do if all the bottles are already gone!

    Daniel, it seems that Pappy was distributed to big box chain retailers in NJ so far. My usual “mom and pop shops” are still waiting for their allotments. I was able to pick up a ORVW 10 and a VW 12 Lot B from Wegmans liquors in Ocean, NJ yesterday. The rest was already gone, they claim to have received 2 of every Pappy and 3 of the ORVW 10 and 12. Shop Rite liquors throughout NJ also received their allotment, but the stores I contacted had waiting lists. I can confirm that no Buy Rite or Spirits Unlimited stores have received B14 bottles yet: the Buy Rite in Tom’s River I posted about previously has pappy for sale at outrageous prices, but upon further inquiry, they are from last year’s release. Keep up the hunt and the faith. According to a couple of store owners I regularly speak to (and who seem to know their stuff), there was a first wave released to 300 big box stores in the state, and a second wave will hit smaller stores the week of Thanksgiving. I’m really only hunting for a pappy 15 at this point, I have a 20 from last year and I’ve pretty much written the 23 off as impossible LOL. Good luck!!

    300 stores? That seems like a lot. I have contacted a lot of stores in NJ, both big box and small and almost none of them have received yet. Wegman’s is all out, but they only have a small handful of liquor stores in NJ… like 7 or 8. I also contacted many of the Shoprites and only found a few that received theres already, but there are tons that have not. The ones that still have some have ridiculous markups. Anyways, what I am trying to figure out is who are these big box retailers that received some because the big box ones I can think of and have contacted have not.

    Chris,
    The “300 store first wave” theory came from a guy at one of my mom and pop shops. While I’m not sure it’s 100% accurate, it did help me narrow down my search and hit paydirt at Wegmans. I called two shop rites (Neptune, and Linkin Park), who both received theirs. The guy at the Linkin Park store was kind of standoffish, and said it was “pointless to call the other ShopRite stores because they all got it and it’s gone”. Only thing I know for sure is the Spirits Unlimited and BuyRite stores have yet to see anything, and a bunch of those stores all had the same story about not getting theirs on the ” first wave ” and that they’re expecting it closer to Thanksgiving. I called Wine Academy, and was told that their stores do not carry Pappy. In a any case, I hope you guys are able to get something at one of the mom and pop shops. To be honest, I never even considered trying Wegmans or Shop Rite until the mom and pop guy mentioned it… I figured the smaller shops were my best chance.

    Thanks for the info Bob. I am pretty confident in the small shops I know of that get it. It is frustrating how it is being released in waves in NJ. It’s like a stressful waiting game at this point.

    Better than my luck in NJ. I’ve been shut out everywhere I’ve called, gone to, spoken to, etc. Not a happy hunter this year.

    Holy Crap, a liquor store next to my house in Alabama that is not ABC Beverage is actually trying to charge $299 for the 10yr and $399 for the 12yr!!! How are they able to get their money grubbing little hands on it and I’m not 🙁 Waited in line for over 2 hours and was like 20th in line to get told ABC Beverage didn’t have anymore, and people like this get a liquor license and price gouge this sh** out of it for a crazy profit. Should be drawn and quartered!

    There is truth in all these blogs. Some BTD brands land in the hands of consumers by shelf, by waiting list, by business owners dropping tens of thousands of dollars per week in spirits, and some States allocate all their Super Rare spirits to their finest resorts particularly WV, VA, and NC. Perhaps Homestead, Greenbrier, and Grove Park Inn as my guesses. There are a couple of Washington DC bourbon bars that have all these available per serving.

    Just got the one and only bottle of 23 year old Pappy in a Boston store. Selling it. Keeping a 20 year my girlfriend scored me. I’m a lucky man, and this process is fun, annoying, and hilarious.

    I had to sleep outside to be in line first. Back when I lived down south, I never worked this hard. Incredible how the craze has spread.

    Blake,

    Thank you for this blog! I’ve been looking forward to this fall since I missed the Pappy release date by a day last year and would not have my 20yo bottle without it. I really appreciate all of the posts and all of the advice everyone has given.

    Earlier, someone asked for pictures of the laser code. Mine is attached. Hope it helps.

    Zack

    It’s in atlanta. Bought last bottle of 10yr. Someone who purchased lot b from same store is already flipping on craigslist for 425. Some places only getting 2 bottles.

    So get this Blake…I was looking at 2 bottles of PVW20 I acquired in the state of Kansas this fall (2 separate stores). The laser codes are N2811111:17 and N2811108:47. Weird right? I thought I’d take a look to see if they were B13 or B14 codes and I was definitely surprised when I came across this.

    Blake…where did you here that 2011 was confirmed SW? I’ve heard people argue that it may not be 100% SW. They’ll argue that it’s a blend of BT and SW. I’m just curious.

    I have a twenty Pappy with a 2011 code very similar to the markings above. I bought it in the fall of 2012. The 20 year 2013 and 2014 had the Buffalo Trace code.

    I’ve gotten two bottles of Pappy in DC from stores where I’m on the list, but this has been the most difficult year for doing so that I can remember. The ORVW 10 was a little over $100 from one store. The Pappy 20 was a little over $260! Both of these stores have excellent bourbon selections, but it seems like it is getting harder to get the 15/20/23 offerings. I’ve heard nothing about the Rye in DC.

    Well, at two retial stores in NE GA it’s been a memorable show of stupendous overpricing last week- both of these retailers were selling at suggested retail last year.

    10 Year $ 169 and $ 399!
    12 Year 269 and 699!!
    15 Year 369 N/A

    So at least in these parts hang on to your hats as it could be a bumpy ride. I can’t wait to hear what the deal is at some other stores here this week. If this is starting a trend, I can think of several other options. No question PVW produces some outstanding bourbon but geez…

    I got word from a lottery that I entered that they have it but the lottery has not happened yet and got a bottle of ORVW from a list I was on. Heard of a few more lotteries at HyVee if you live near one

    My 2014 Haul in the past 3 days: Pappy 23, 20, and 12 year and a BTAC Stagg. 2014 has been a major success, and still going. (All in/around Boston–two stores)

    Being that I ran into Casey at both stores in the Boston area I can second that it has been a successful season. Looked bleak for awhile but in 2 days ended up with a Pappy 20, 15, Rye and 2013 George T Stagg and Thomas H Handy. My buddy who came with me took home a 23 year and a 20 along with Stagg and Handy as well. Price for the 15 at store #1 was at about retail while the others from store #2 were probably about 15-20% above retail but at those prices given the market I think most people would be happy to pay the small premium. To be able to just pick and choose from a large allocation of Pappy and BTAC was a very unexpected but welcome experience. Hope we can do the same next year, and hope others find a store that gives them a similar experience. Good luck to all.

    I had great luck in NH, but no luck in MA. Most of the stores in my area Newton/Waltham/Watertown are picked clean immediately or have waiting lists. I’ll find an off the beaten path store on occasion, but they never have anything good. Don’t even try Boston as I’ve never had luck. I should be happy with my NH haul (2 ORVW 10s, 2 Lot Bs, 2 Staggs, 2 Saz 18s, 1 ER17 and 1 THH). Really wanted a Weller and/or a Pappy 15. Maybe next year…

    This is maybe a halfway sleepy idea before heading up to work in Newton, but if anyone has any insight on Boston area Pappy 15s or 20s, I am starting to lose hope… Text? 774-219-7082. Would be in your debt. Thank you fellow bourbon lovers.

    Saw my first bottle of Pappy 20yr in Colorado today. Retail guy asked $1,000 so walked out instantly. Not sure what is wrong with stores

    Nate – Mind sharing where in CO? Not that I have any interest whatsoever in paying that much money – more wondering if it has hit the Denver market yet. I know it hit the western slope last week. Thanks.

    It was at Primo Vino in Arvada. Guy is a you know what, asking 1k.

    Also have a friend who found Stagg BTAC in Denver, we have been hitting the markets found a 4 roses limited edition in my neighborhood and the PH 2014 release is everywhere also.

    No other sightings of Pappy so far

    Got 1 ORVW 107 in Atlanta for $70. Steep I know but I’m happy. I was hoping for a 15 or 20 yr but I’ll wait another year. Good luck y’all.

    May have a lead on some Pappy but will need to purchase other bottles with it. Some I’ve had but looking for some input on others that I haven’t: 2014 Four Roses Limited; Elijah Craig 23; Rhetoric 20; Barterhouse 20; Elmer T Lee.

    Any input on those?

    ETL is one of my favorite “standard” pours – it’s been hard to find this year, so I’d scoop that one up. FRSmBLE is alway a fine pour, so I’d take one of those, too. IMO the Rhetoric and Barterhouse offerings are more marketing and “cool stories” than anything else – those are easy passes for me, especially at current prices. Haven’t had EC23, so no opinion on that one. Good luck!

    Thanks Chris. Appreciate the input. That EC23 seems like it ‘s more of a collectors item at $200 then a good pour from a taste perspective. If I was a flipper, I would probably jump on it but looking for personal consumption.

    Since I shared what I thought was a good lead, I may as well share the lead gone sour. It turns out that the Pappy 15 and 12 were both available at retail prices. However, they wanted several additional bottles purchased of their allocated supply at anywhere from 1.5x to 2.5x retail. The Parkers, normally just under $100, was priced at $199. The EC23, normally $200, was priced at $350. The hunt continues. Waiting for the release here in NYC that, as far as I can gather, should be in the next week or two.

    one of my local stores, bottle king in hillsborough, nj had a bottle of elijiah craig 23 and i believe the rhetoric and barterhouse as of a few days ago.

    I would also like to say, this is not by any means proof that PVW has arrived in California. It just the first I’ve seen locally.

    Picked up an Old Rip 10 and a Pappy 15 today in SE Denver. Small local store that only got 1 bottle of each. They were delivered at about 10:00 this morning from the distributor.
    Checked some other stores in the area with no luck.
    Happy hunting!

    Nice work wade. Got my 23yr and Rye at Total B in Thornton. There were only 4 of us waiting, make sure if you are headed that way you are a club card member or they wont give you any.

    Hey, Mike. My local store recently started their annual raffle. I’m not sure if they’re leftover ’13 bottles or a new shipment of ’14 bottles, but will give it a look later this week and let you know.

    Talked to the guy at the store I regularly frequent and he said that he was supposed to get his in last Friday but is still waiting. He said something about a sh*tty situation in which he went from 8 bottles total last year down to an expected 2 this year.

    Just called every store in Oregon that showed an allocation of Van Winkle and they got them last Friday 11/14 and are all gone. Some had raffles and events but as I just joined the group, I was five days too late dammit! I’ll certainly stay on top of it next year. Would love to hear if anyone hears of anything showing up in Washington anytime soon.

    I talked with a manager at my local (Palm Beach County) Total Wine on Wednesday the 19th and he said they weren’t getting any Pappy. They got bottles of most of the BTAC line on November 3rd and they had Pappy last year. no one seems to know what’s going on or when it will be released but most of the country has seen it by now. I’m beginning to lose hope for getting any this year.

    Total Wine is holding it until Feb when they will then announce how they are going to release it. There’s more information at the top of this page.

    I did a search in southern new jersey this weekend.
    they have pappy’s in many stores but the prices at the retails are outrageous.
    they all have the same prices and it’s as if they all spoke to each other and determined the price.
    also i spoke with a few store owners and it seemed like they have a special attachment this year.
    i heard guys saying “i only got 1 bottle this year”, “only one of my 4 stores got pappy this year”, “i could have made more last year”, “we’re raffling later in december because we want to see the prices they sell for first”.
    here are the prices they gave me at all the stores but one.

    10yr – $399
    12 yr – $499
    15 yr – $999
    20 yr – $1299
    23 yr – $1799

    also the unreal prices i found stagg and handy

    stagg – 499
    handy – 399

    there was one store that was selling the 10 yr for 199 but they sold their last bottle yesterday morning.

    I was lucky enough to get a bottle of VW12yr. I am looking to trade for a bottle of PVW15yr. I would throw in a bottle of Eagle Rare 17 or Four Roses Limited Edition Small Batch to even up the trade. Any takers?

    I went as low as hamilton township. Once I was down there I saw bottles in every 3-4 stores I went. These prices were a little more than I wanted to spend. But are these fair prices?

    Anyone heard about release date for Chattanooga, TN or Nashville, TN…I have heard the distributors have it, but haven’t released yet. Also on a separate topic, was able to purchase a bottle of Jim Beam’s Distiller’s Masterpiece last week and was told it was extremely rare, but I haven’t been able to find too much info about it other than press releases, I’m hoping I scored something nice…any info anyone has?

    I am in middle Tennessee and hope to have the inside track at a small, local liquor store. My guy says that he still expects to get some, but hasn’t yet. I wonder why east Tennessee received pappy a while ago but middle and west Tennessee have not???

    Yes, I am confused by the difference in release between East and West TN…East TN received their allotment a few weeks ago, I was able to pick up 3 (10s), 1(12), 1(15), 1(20), and I got a Pappy Rye from NJ…so feel very good about my hunting, but am still looking for the almighty 23, but have a couple leads on it…hoping they pan out. Good luck, hopefully your source will score for you!

    Seen some in brooklyn ny today. It was a joke.
    10yr 799
    12yr 999
    20yr 2199

    I place near my mother’s in queens said they’re expecting this weekend. They said 10will be 499, 12yr for 699.
    I got a bottle of.12yr last year from the same store for 200.

    Ny is a joke. Theyre all flippers or people gifting to clients.

    I broke down and spent $225 for a bottle of Pappy 15. Honestly, it’s the cheapest i’ve found anything 15 years or older in NJ. Even at that price, the store owner was trying to muscle me into buying additional bottles from the distributor (he was really pushing JP Wisers). If he had told me this ahead of time, thats one thing… but, all he told me was that he had the bottle, and that it was $225. So after an hour and a half ride to his store, he starts in with the games. Thankfully, he backed off because I started threatening to blast him on the internet. I was able to score a bottle of ORVW 10 and RVW 12 Lot B from a big box store at retail pricing, but that was just pure luck. Average price for Pappy 15 around these parts is about $750, give or take. PVW 20 averages $1000, and PVW 23 is between $1800-2300. I’ve settled myself on the fact that I won’t be able to touch a bottle of PVW 23 for at least another decade, so its just not worth getting upset over. UGH, well at least the hunt is over for this year, good luck to everyone and hope you find better prices than I’ve been seeing!!

    Just to put everyones minds at rest, I forgot to mention: This store only got two bottles in, my bottle of 15, and a bottle of 23. The bottle of 23 was $700, and was long gone by the time I got to the store.

    Also – I’ve found myself daydreaming of a day where there is some new craze, maybe scotch or tequila. I walk into a liquor store, past a giant crowd of people trying to enter a lottery for this new craze, keep walking to the bourbon section, pick up a bottle of PVW from the shelf (fully stocked, mind you), and smile all the way back to the car. I wonder how many people will still be buying PVW when the craze ends lol…. At least that means there will be more for us, right Blake?

    I’m surprised that you found any Pappy in stores in NJ. I only saw Pappy in one store in south Jersey- a bottle of 23 for $3500 or something crazy like that- I think that was the Joe Canal’s in Bellmawr.

    I found Pappy at Raritan Liquors on Rt. 31 in central Jersey for stupid money as well- $250 for 10 yr., $300 for 12, $750 for 15, IIRC.

    Finally, there was Pappy at Edgewater Liquors in Edgewater for stupid money- I think the 15 yr. was $1000.

    The only other stuff I was able to find was Sazerac 18 for $375, Tom Handy for $200 and Edgewater was selling Stagg for $500. The stores that sell Pappy and BTAC at reasonable prices are few and far between. Most of them only sell to their good customers, so it never hits the shelves.

    Tucker, I was very very lucky this year. I found the ORVW 10 and 12 at Wegmans in Ocean Township. The manager there said they got a few bottles of each variety, and they had sold out of the older bottles by the time I had made it there. The PVW 15 I bought for $225 came from Buy Rite on Rt 9 in Old Bridge. I’m a VERY regular customer there, and yet they still tried to beat me up on it. The stores who got Pappy last year and overcharged for it did not get any this year, as far as I’ve seen…. A few of those stores (Spirit of 76 in Manasquan) actually were so certain they were getting some this year that they PRESOLD bottles at outrageous prices. They still are trying to get some, but I’m pretty sure distribution is complete in NJ. I doubt I’ll be this lucky again next year… Jersey seems to be getting worse and worse in terms of price gouging.

    Was lucky and got a Rye from Spirit of 76…they were asking almost $600, but I was able to get them down to $300 and also got a Parker’s Heritage Promise of Hope for $120…thought it was a fair deal.

    Jeremy,
    When did Spirit of ’76 get their allotment? I was there Saturday, and was told they were “passed over this year”. In any event, that’s a great deal on the rye. How’d you get them to come down so much? I tried to buy a William Larue Weller from them last season and couldn’t get them to budge from $300… Congrats on your find!

    Hey Bob,

    100% luck, I live in TN and was combing the internet for Parker’s Heritage Promise of Hope…saw it at Spirit of 76, ordered and then called them to make sure they had it in stock as I was surprised to find at that price…they did indeed have it and started talking to “Jen” and asked her if they had any other Allocated bourbon, etc. She said they had a Handy, Sazerac ($375+) and the Rye($579.00…if I recall), I said I would give her $300…she sort of laughed and said, “No” I then emailed her to confirm my PH order and just said “if” you guys ever can’t move the rye at that price, I would buy at $350…left my phone number, email, etc…not expecting anything, but got a call about 5 minutes later and she said the owners would sell or $300…I was pretty stocked to say the least!!! I have a few other possibilities on some Pappy 15, 20, 23 and BTAC over the next couple days…let me know if you would be interested, If/when I get them I will look to sell at a reasonable price…not looking to price gauge…just want to hopefully pay for some of this Fall hunt! 🙂

    Spirit of ’76 in Manasquan is where I saw Saz18 for $375 and THH for $200. I didn’t even bother to ask them about Pappy. I don’t know when you were talking to them, but I was there on Monday. I didn’t ask to see if they would lower their prices because that was simply crazy pricing.

    Just a heads up to Jersey folk, as i posted elsewhere Bottle King in Ramsey, NJ has a large amount of Pappy in stock! You can only buy it from the manager, who will definitely claim they dont have any, but if you push him hell sell you one. ALSO BTAC. Just dont believe his nonsense, they have it.

    i live in nyc, but occasionally go to NJ or travel south to look for a few new bottles that aren’t found here. the two stores that i am fairly regular in NY don’t get them unfortunately… so i guess the hunt continues…

    Vinny,
    I’m pretty sure FedEx will ship spirits, but they will require you go to a FedEx location in your area to pick them up. You’ll have to prove you’re over 21 in order to receive the package. I did this with Jack Daniels Sinatra Select for my dad, since it wasn’t available near him! Hope this helps!

    JJ…I certainly will, I havea couple more “warm” leads that may get me a few extra bottles and I will then be willing to share. Have a great Thanksgiving!

    Jeremy,

    If any of your other leads come through I would be up to take one or two off of your hands at the right price. I swung and missed this year.

    Jared,

    Will do…I am hoping a couple come through…I will let you know and again, not looking to get rich, so will be fair.

    I just got a phone call yesterday from Powers Liquor Mart in Colorado Springs, CO where my name was drawn for a bottle of 20yr. My excitement was crushed as the store informed me they were selling it for $641. Needless to say, I didn’t buy it as I had no intentions of reselling it and now the store has lost my business forever.

    That is ridiculous. What is the need for the lottery?… the price is going to drive away most customers anyway. I was talking to one store owner this year who does not mark up his products (got a bottle of Handy for $85 from him) who said it pretty well… “price gouging 3 or 4 bottles over the scope of the entire year isn’t going to make my business rich, it’s just going to piss people off”.

    I just called the store back about the bottle as I informed them I was going to report them for price gouging if they didn’t sell it for retail. Their response was, “the owner is still going to sell it for $641”. Needless to say, they still haven’t sold it yet.

    Pablo, laser codes didn’t start until 2007. However, I’ve seen some newer bottles that have laser codes that have been rubbed off.

    Still nothing in Orlando and have been calling everywhere. Several stores tell me they haven’t had an allocation in years. B21 flat out told me they are getting it, but none is available as they all keep it internally. Total Wine is still playing the ” we aren’t getting any at all this year”. I guess I still have the ABC lottery to hope for… Let me hold my breath on that one.

    I am a newbie, as I just recently heard of Pappy Van Winkle. First was a mention on a TV series, and the second was in a novel I read last week. Decided to do some research today to see if it was a real product. I live in Grants Pass, OR, and would love to acquire a bottle of 23 or 20. If anyone is aware of an Oregon retailer, or is an Oregon retailer, I would certainly welcome the opportunity to purchase a bottle. I see the allocations are extremely small, and that they sell immediately upon receipt, but it never hurts to ask. Anyone willing to place me on a waiting list, I hope to be around for a few more years.

    Honestly, you’d never be able to appreciate it unless you’ve racked up sometime building your palate with bourbon. I used to let friends sample some of my “best”/top shelf stuff, but it never struck them as anything special. If you’ll be here for “a few more years”, its better to start off with more ready/available supplies. Pappy is almost wishful thinking, even for us seasoned guys….
    I do remember the days though, when i could research “best bourbons” and hit up the store, and they’d all be on the shelf.. man….

    Tried to order through the online release from the Liquor Barn (IL) last night. According to them, 4,000+ people were on their site when they released 30 bottles at midnight (they said there were 30 orders…at 1 per person, they must have had 30 bottles). They were gone in seconds. Quite a few unhappy postings on their FB page as a result.

    Did they have a set time that they were releasing it so everybody was ready to overload the servers?? Here in PA it is completely online, BUT nobody know when it will be released, so you have to sign up on their twitter and hope you can get online quick enough, or check every few minutes through the day hoping to stumble across it even before they get the tweet out.

    Yea, they announced it earlier this week as “Thanksgiving Day at 12am.” (This caused some confusion, as folks weren’t clear whether they truly meant Wed going into Thur, Thur going into Fri, or if it was a typo and they meant 12pm.) Wed night at 11:40pm they posted “Pappy in 20 minutes!” and the offering did occur at the stroke of midnight. People were ready and waiting. An unannounced time window probably would have made for less frustrated folks.

    got a 15 year and a 12 in miami and ft. Lauderdale. Hunt was fun. Gotta try harder next year for the 23 year. Can’t believe how fast this stuff is gone in south fla

    We havent received it in CT yet but my regular store “says” they will charge normal retail prices around $80 to $100 a bottle or so

    @PC, out of curiosity, what part of CT are you in? I’m here in southern CT and have one main liquor store that gets my business. However, in the process of finding my one guy, I’ve visited (and continue to do so) over a hundred liquor stores and haven’t found anyone that gets Pappy or BTAC; I’ve been looking for over 7 years now to no avail. Any suggestions on where to direct my search?

    All I can say is that, at the end of the Pappy craze, I will have held true to one fact.
    I always have and only paid retail for Pappy. No mark up, no flipping, just enjoying a great bourbon with family and friends. That is what it is all about… Thank God I live in a ABC state that doesn’t rip off its consumers. Happy Pappy holidays my fellow bourbon friends.

    I trully think the Florida report was incorrect because none of the sites near me have received anything yet. And we haven’t received our allocation at work either.

    Florida definitely has – I was able to get a 15 this weekend from a small shop in the Tampa area that I was on a wait list with. Not sure about MIA/FTL area though.

    Just got word that Pappy is now released in Idaho. It was via a lottery of course, but got lucky and was selected for a 23 year. Excited to get one as the demand just seems to keep going and may not get another chance at it.

    Am out on a business trip, so have not picked it up yet. Idaho is state regulated so they charge normal retail for the Pappy. I will get it today when I get back home. It is all about getting lucky in the lottery.

    Can Confirm Louisiana has BTAC and Pappy. Got an email notice from Lafayette, LA liquor store offering there pappy 23 as first come first serve for the low price of $2,799.99.

    JB, I haven’t been able to track down a release date for CT. I don’t believe PVW had been released as of Thanksgiving week–my local store was still waiting on its distribution. Any other information out there?

    I got a bottle of 20 in Nashville today! It’s hit all of the stores in the mid-state. Some stores are saying they still haven’t received it. Trust me.. everyone has it!

    Cork and Cow in Franklin is serving it as well.

    Just a heads up, Bottle King in Ramsey, NJ has ample Pappy in stock! I got mine, figured id share the wealth. Only the manager can sell it, i dont know his , name but hes late 50s, bald with glasses. He will DEFINITELY say they dont have any, but if youre a bit pushy he will sell you a bottle. They also have BTAC, but i dont think you can get both. Hell sell you one bottle, so choose pvw or btac. Just keep at him, dont let him fool you

    Just tried calling in, and they would not budge at all, in fact they were quite rude saying that you’re mistaken, and when I asked for the manager he said he was the manager but he didn’t sound anywhere near 50. Not sure if it’s worth it to drive all the way over there to find out…

    Yeah, theyre pretty awfully rude over there. I know several people who have come in asking and gotten incredible attitude from these guys. Dont know what their problem is.

    ANy word on PLCB? Pannsylvania is releasing REALLY late this year. I read they were shooting for late november, but obviously not…